I just want my propane hard lined inside... HELP please!

[Cheryl8]

I wish I was here to update you with my brand new studio all set up... unfortunately, that's not yet the case. The furniture is (more or less) in place but the vent will be at least another couple of weeks before my guy can reinstall it.

The worst news: I am having a TERRIBLE time finding someone to rig up my propane through a hard line into the studio. I had considered natural gas but felt that the propane option was simplest. I wanted to avoid having a NG booster inside such a small space (and avoid the trench). Unfortunately, the regs here in Ontario are SO tight that anyone who has seen the setup requirement gets cold feet and runs. The latest issue is the PSI required to run my Lynx and Cricket torches (which I understand is between 5 and 8 psi). Gas license guys claim they're "not allowed" to install any lines which would run at that level for residential use. Now, given that this studio is apart from the residence, I thought I might have some luck but... NO.

So, I'm printing off the amazing information about parts needed to set up one's own propane line BUT, I'm curious to know - has anyone been able to source all the parts required in Canada? (I'm seriously hating regulations at this instant in time).

(sigh)

(cross-posted in studio)

[Kevan]

I keep mine on a dolly and roll it outside when I'm done torching. I'm not storing it in the house. The law says you can't store it in the house.

[menty666]

I'm kind of do it the wrong way too

But have you considered specing it out differently for the benefit of the contractor? Tell them you want a line capable of 20psi for safety sake, but that you'll run it at 2 psi. You're the one setting your regulator, not them. They cover their butts, you get your line, everyone wins.

[Cheryl8]

Originally Posted by Kevan

I keep mine on a dolly and roll it outside when I'm done torching. I'm not storing it in the house. The law says you can't store it in the house.

Hi Kevan,

Thanks for your reply. The dolly thing would be an even more complicated solution for my situation.

Oh, and just to clarify: I have no intention of storing the propane inside the studio. The tank will be outside. What I want is a hard piped line through the wall to transfer the propane inside when being used for torching. It's to avoid having to disconnect the lines every single time I finish torching. In my former studio, I had it done (without this big hoop jumping thing) and I'd just bleed the lines by turning off the tank outside and letting the torch burn off any residual propane. The big issue with the prior setup was that the flexible lines didn't do well in the winter weather. The regulator fared even poorer.

I have the feeling I may end up doing it myself. (Now, there's an unsafe proposition!)

[Cheryl8]

Originally Posted by menty666

I kind of do it the wrong way too

But have you considered specing it out differently for the benefit of the contractor? Tell them you want a line capable of 20psi for safety sake, but that you'll run it at 2 psi. You're the one setting your regulator, not them. They cover their butts, you get your line, everyone wins.

Tom,

What you say makes sense -- and I did come to realization this evening that my best option may be to simply have them install the piping and allow them to believe they're hooking up directly to the tank. Then, all I'll need to do is switch out the parts at the tank for those necessary to attach my regulator (heh).

Oh, but I was miffed to learn that I can't even protect the tank and regulator by using one of those vertical rubbermaid sheds. Totally illegal here. Who knew?

[menty666]

Originally Posted by Cheryl8

Tom,

What you say makes sense -- and I did come to realization this evening that my best option may be to simply have them install the piping and allow them to believe they're hooking up directly to the tank. Then, all I'll need to do is switch out the parts at the tank for those necessary to attach my regulator (heh).

Oh, but I was miffed to learn that I can't even protect the tank and regulator by using one of those vertical rubbermaid sheds. Totally illegal here. Who knew?

Well, just build a little wooden half outhouse over it attached to the wall. I keep meaning to build one for mine but there's never enough hours in the day.

[Mike Frantz]

Our studio is hard plumbed. We have a 200 gallon tank about 15 or 20 feet away from the studio with black pipe underground, then along the side of the building and through a hole with a large on/off valve. I do not understand why you can not get anybody to install this for you. If you had a barn heater (like we do) and ask a propane plumber to do it (which we did) they they shoud do it. If they are against you having a torch, but if it is still legal, just tell them to plumb in the heater and then modify it yourself. Not rocket science, but then again I do not know the laws, but doing it that way is safer than having a propane tank between your knees.

Mike

[NMLinda]

So sorry to hear about your frustrations!! Codes are so different from place to place. Where I am, code allows me to pipe propane into my home at up to 5 psi. Good thing, because the only heating/cooking fuel source in this area is propane....

If you find you need to install your line yourself, below is a link to an excellent tutorial posted on another forum by DeAnne/Theglasszone

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125930

I don't know if this will give you all the info you need, but it should take you a long ways.

Best of luck
Linda

[NMLinda]

A couple of thoughts about DeAnne's wonderful tut - if you want to try this, you'll need to drill a hole in the side of your studio about 3/4" to 1" in diameter so that the pipe will go through (measure the outer diameter of the pipe to be sure what size hole you need). Drill it so that one side is right next to a stud in your studio wall. That way you can secure the pipe to the stud with one of the pipe clamps she shows in her pictures. If you look at the second to last picture, you can assemble one end, as she's shown, feed the pipe through the wall, secure it with the pipe clamp (means you need access to the broad side of the wall stud, often hidden by any interior wall covering), then assemble the other end. What she shows assumes that you will use a section of T-grade hose between the black pipe assembly and the regulator of your tank. This set-up is also good if you have a stand-alone tank just outside your studio. If you can cover the hose and your regulator, that might be a solution for you.

If you have concerns about 'visitors', like mice, who might like to nibble on your hose, or want something more durable in the long term for your climate, you may want to consider soft copper tubing instead. If you decide to go that route, you need to replace the hose-barb fitting DeAnne's tut shows on the end that goes outside the building with one that has a compression fitting on one side. You'll also need to get an adapter fitting for your propane regulator - probably need one with a 'B' fitting on one end and a compression fitting on another. I've only found fittings with 'B' type on one or both ends at welding shops (although RV places might have these, too). You may need to cascade a couple of fittings to be able to convert from 'B' to compression, and may have to search around at both welding and hardware stores to get everything you need. Once you have compression fittings at the end of the black pipe and the end of your regulator, you can cut a convenient length of soft copper tubing (like that used for RV propane lines - I like using 3/8" ID) with a tubing cutter, put a coil in it (makes it easier to line things up), slide a compression nut and then a ferrule on one end of the tubing, flare the tubing with a flaring tool, and then repeat on the other end. Then screw your new copper tubing in place, leak-check and you're done. You have to get a couple of special tools to do this, and it may sound hard, but in practice, the real PITA is running around trying to find the fittings. If you don't want to buy the tools, or don't feel comfortable making the tubing section, some RV places will cut the tubing for you and put the fittings on. This approach also assumes that you have a stand-along propane tank, like a BBQ tank, outside your studio.

Hope this also helps you

Linda

[Dale M.]

Originally Posted by Cheryl8

I wish I was here to update you with my brand new studio all set up... unfortunately, that's not yet the case. The furniture is (more or less) in place but the vent will be at least another couple of weeks before my guy can reinstall it.

The worst news: I am having a TERRIBLE time finding someone to rig up my propane through a hard line into the studio. I had considered natural gas but felt that the propane option was simplest. I wanted to avoid having a NG booster inside such a small space (and avoid the trench). Unfortunately, the regs here in Ontario are SO tight that anyone who has seen the setup requirement gets cold feet and runs. The latest issue is the PSI required to run my Lynx and Cricket torches (which I understand is between 5 and 8 psi). Gas license guys claim they're "not allowed" to install any lines which would run at that level for residential use. Now, given that this studio is apart from the residence, I thought I might have some luck but... NO.

So, I'm printing off the amazing information about parts needed to set up one's own propane line BUT, I'm curious to know - has anyone been able to source all the parts required in Canada? (I'm seriously hating regulations at this instant in time).

(sigh)

(cross-posted in studio)

Ask "gas license guy" for documentation on what pressure specifications are.... Want to bet he is wrong...

A lot of new appliances work on 2 psi.... That should be legal and it should satisfy the needs of your torch....

Dale

[Cheryl8]

Ontario Regulations are absolute. No more than 1/2 lb. psi allowed to enter a residence. Period.

However, by taking out the regulator from the equation, he's willing to hardline the pipe for me. So, all I have to do is adapt the outside portion for the regulator attachment the instant they leave the yard. It's what I've had to resort to in order to get the job done.

Only problem is, he wants to use 1/4" copper. Not sure if this will cause me grief down the road or not. I've tried to show him the plans with black pipe but for some reason, he's insisting I need nothing more than the 1/4" copper line. Does anyone know if this will impede concentration/regulation of propane needed for torch operation? I see that the actual hole on the torch pigtail is significantly smaller but I'd hate to go through all this and find out the black pipe is required for sufficient pressure optimization.

Monday is D-Day! (I hope - I've waited since June so I'm starting to get a little pessimistic)

[Dale M.]

When you consider your hoses and the size of the torch tip... I'm going to say the 1/4 inch copper will be sufficient... I'll even say it will be enough to power more then one small to medium torch in operation at same time....

Dale

[Cheryl8]

Dale, Thank you. Not only for this response but for ALWAYS responding. You're a wealth of information and I've learned an incredible amount from your many posts on safety and lampworking!

[Habman]

My house gas is plumbed in 1/4 copper from the 500 gal tank to the house.

My furnace, water heater and range all run off it, so I am sure there will be enough gas volume for your torch(es).

[Cheryl8]

I ordered a propane line and it's now here - so while it may be temporary -- I'm TORCHING TOMORROW! YEAH! Pics at 11:00

[Beadanna]

Yesss Cheryl!! WooHoo!

[Sharon Abood]

My DH and SIL did my propane line. They went through the basement wall and then up through the floor into my studio. There is a funky valve outside off the tank and then the 1/4" line comes in. The regulator is just above where the line comes through the floor. They did a great job and I had them go out to the welding shop to make sure everything was up to par. I forget what the valve right off the tank is called but it is about the size of a saucer. This set-up is facing the front of my house and my DH was concerned that it would be an eye-sore so we planted ornamental grass in front of it and it hides it very well. Now I need to get a hood hooked up. I think I am going to just go with my fans and windows for now though. I am thinking about changing around all my studio space this next spring. I have 12 jewelry students right now and I need more "together" space for all of us so I need to move my glass area out of the room that all my jewelry stuff is in. One of these days I will put some pictures up here and ask you all for suggestions.

[Dale M.]

Originally Posted by Sharon Abood

I forget what the valve right off the tank is called but it is about the size of a saucer. This set-up is facing the front of my house and my DH was concerned that it would be an eye-sore so we planted ornamental grass in front of it and it hides it very well.

Regulator?

Dale

[Cheryl8]

Argh. THIRD set of gas company idiots showed up last week (two minutes before I had to leave to get my daughter from school). I told them I'd be back in 15 minutes. I took 20. When I returned, they were gone. No note, nada.

Still hadn't heard from them so I called the man who referred them this morning. He said "they can't do the work to regulation so they said they won't do it". Um, did someone want to tell *ME* that?

These are the very same idiots who walked in a week ago and said "why don't you just leave the tank in the studio? It's much easier...."

This is the THIRD gas fitting crew who promised they'd do the work then backed out. I've given up. I'm going to Home Depot to find the parts and do it myself. The hardest part will be drilling the hole through the studio wall

ARGH.

[Sharon Abood]

Originally Posted by Dale M.

Regulator?

Dale

Yes, they brought the line up through the floor and it is on a copper pipe where all my 3 way valve is. Works out very nicely.